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DynamicPageList3 Manual talk:Feedback (view source)
Revision as of 21:44, 19 April 2022
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::: I'm not talking about appearance. You literally wrapped the example into a template - for style reasons solely. People who aren't very familiar with how templates work (yes, I've met a few) could now think that they have to do it like this.<br>Also - I don't see any reason why you would want to move the styles to a different stylesheet - maybe you can enlighten me there. --[[User:Soukupmi|Soukupmi]] ([[User talk:Soukupmi|talk]]) 15:00, 19 April 2022 (UTC)
:::: [[User:Soukupmi|@Soukupmi]]: My answer to the first problem: I know some examples are still wrapped by tables. It is hard to expect that people who are not familiar with template syntax are familiar with table syntax. I think the fact that the manual shows raw wikitext can prevent users from having to view the source.<br>Second: The styles defined in MediaWiki:Common.css have a very massive effect, making it hard to expect the result of a modification and making it hard to edit the styles. It also decreases the performance of the whole wiki site. Readability also can be a reason. [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:TemplateStyles#What_problems_does_it_solve? https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:TemplateStyles#What_problems_does_it_solve?] can give more detailed backgrounds to you. [[User:Lens0021|Lens0021]] ([[User talk:Lens0021|talk]]) 16:48, 19 April 2022 (UTC)
::::: I can see now that the example styles need to stay in Common.css so as not to complicate and create problems with the examples and the learning. I'm sorry, Lens, other styles used in the manual can be in template styles, that's fine, but making all into template styles is not more important than the needs of people learning to use the extension (and not complicating examples unnecessarily for them as stated and explained numerous times above). I understand where you're coming from, though and in other situations I'd agree with you, this situation requires a different approach due to the subject matter and the needs of the resource. It goes against instructional/learning best practice to obfuscate examples in any way, this would do that (and did do that). Not being able to edit example styles will not be unexpected to users given all three DPL manuals had the styles in Common.css, the [https://followthescore.org/dpldemo/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Common.css full original manual], the [https://help.fandom.com/wiki/MediaWiki:Common.css gamepedia/fandom manual], and the [https://de.wiki-aventurica.de/wiki/MediaWiki:Common.css German Manual Hilfe:DynamicPageList). It is more disruptive to have examples and content that can't be easily understood, than it is to have a handful of styles locked down (I'd find it far more disruptive if the manual styles '''were''' changed randomly when visiting the manual, and if the examples were complicated by extra stuff--which they were on the fandom site and again, is the stated solid reasoning for not doing that here).
::::: I need to be frank here, I'm finding the insistence to change everything I've been doing, as I've been doing it, to be very disruptive; as well as essentially forcing me to explain myself at every step, hindering my efforts and ability to finish the project I proposed, and that I told CA I would get established for him (and that he accepted as such). Especially after asking for patience, time, and understanding to get things solid, giving my unique neurological challenges (I am repeatedly not being afforded these accommodations, despite explaining my need for them and the nature of my challenges--that's not okay). The changes proposed have not been well-thought-out as to understand what it is I'm doing and why, they have not also been well thought out towards maintenance burden (or the utility of what I've proposed for the audiences it was proposed for being more important than other factors), towards instructional best practice, or towards the importance of the learning over the ability for individual users to control things of much lesser importance. Most new wikis are granted a period of understanding, that time is needed to get a coherent direction set and content fleshed out. I am not being granted that (even after stating why I especially need it), and I'm not sure why. I did not make the decisions I made lightly, I am fully trained in EdTech and Instructional design, even though I may have severe limitations based on my neuro-condition (my training is why I offered to CA to do this, he accepted--I'm fulfilling that). I explained my logic and reasoning soundly at every turn. I'd appreciate if I wasn't being pressed to continue to re-explain the same things in different ways after already having done so. If I was given the accommodations I need, I'd continue working here and finish what I proposed, instead I find myself essentially feeling forced to work off-site (to lessen such disruption) and move content back and forth later instead. I should not have to do that, I realized this morning that having to do that was essentially letting myself be "running off" from a project I proposed to CA and stated I'd do (which again, he accepted). Things are being changed in the meantime so that my efforts are nullified... So, I'm not going anywhere, I will continue to work here and fulfill my mandate. Please try to better understand the larger picture, the teaching/learning context, and my motivations and insights as an instructional designer, before making repeated requests, suggestions, or changes that can derail those efforts. I also feel it is inappropriate to seek to impose personal preferences on a wiki over the needs of average users and the goal set for the resource Also, I'll point out that if you have preferences for styles or javacript that differ from what exists, you can apply these in your user styles or JS.
::::: And yes, some examples are in tables, you make a good point that these must be separated out (I will do that and have already been doing that for some, but again I need to be given time to actually finish doing that). Also, I'd be a no-vote, again (already explained why), for enabling VE and structured discussions on talk pages because it is common for people to ask questions involving the use of DPL3 in talk pages, and to have those questions answered in-kind, with working examples '''[https://followthescore.org/dpldemo/index.php?title=DPL_talk:Manual_-_DPL_parameters:_Controlling_output_format as can be clearly observed here]''' this too was part of the plan and my decision for disabling VE.[[User:FrozenPlum|FrozenPlum]] ([[User talk:FrozenPlum|talk]]) 21:44, 19 April 2022 (UTC)
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